As many of you know, Google has announced that G+ will be shutting down in the Summer of 2019.
As many of you know, Google has announced that G+ will be shutting down in the Summer of 2019. It's a huge bummer, because Ironsworn wouldn't exist without the feedback and support you (the members of the community) have provided. It's truly been a pleasure and a privilege to watch this community grow.
As I've noted previously, I'm not in a huge hurry to close the doors. I will continue to monitor and post here until Google turns out the lights. That said, I am painfully aware that the conversations and content we create have a limited shelf life.
So, for this post, I'd like to have an open discussion about where -- if anywhere -- to put a semi-official community hub for Ironsworn. I'll be pinning this to the top of the group for the month of December. Please share your thoughts! I'll provide some of my thoughts below.
I am painfully aware that any choice we make will be leaving many (if not most) people behind. There's no perfect answer. In fact, I have a feeling we might just end up making do with the existing smaller communities we already have in place rather than trying to create a new "main" destination.
Let's talk about it!
As I've noted previously, I'm not in a huge hurry to close the doors. I will continue to monitor and post here until Google turns out the lights. That said, I am painfully aware that the conversations and content we create have a limited shelf life.
So, for this post, I'd like to have an open discussion about where -- if anywhere -- to put a semi-official community hub for Ironsworn. I'll be pinning this to the top of the group for the month of December. Please share your thoughts! I'll provide some of my thoughts below.
I am painfully aware that any choice we make will be leaving many (if not most) people behind. There's no perfect answer. In fact, I have a feeling we might just end up making do with the existing smaller communities we already have in place rather than trying to create a new "main" destination.
Let's talk about it!
Let's take a look at a couple of new options, and some of our existing community destinations....
ReplyDeleteMeWe (https://mewe.com/)
There's been a bit of a hurried RPG exodus among many G+ groups to MeWe. It shares many of the features of G+, and is relatively robust. I have lurked and interacted there for a few weeks, and I generally find it "OK". The UI feels overly fiddly, I don't think the quality of content is nearly the same as it is here. I also do not like that communities are hidden and that the content is not discoverable without joining that community. This severely limits sharing and cross-pollination.
Also, MeWe is inherently problematic for me because the owners/operators espouse a "free speech above all else" policy that lacks the nuance I think is necessary in today's world.
Finally, I will say that putting my eggs in the MeWe basket is worrisome because it relies too much on an unproven company and an unproven business model.
Private Forum
Creating a dedicated forum would be an option, but I'd prefer not to have to deal with the infrastructure and moderation, and -- in my experience -- private forums for a specific game (unless it's really popular) tend to turn into ghost towns. Good for spam bots. Not so great for a community.
Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/groups/328279421036397/)
The Facebook group is not particularly active, but membership has been steadily growing. I'll put my cards on the table and say I'm not a huge fan of Facebook for many reasons. I grit my teeth and deal with it, but I don't spend much time there.
Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/Ironsworn/)
We have an existing subReddit which was spun up about two months ago. I will admit that I had some preconceived negative impressions of Reddit. But, those notions haven't really proven out. I enjoy browsing the main tabletop RPG subreddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/), and Ironsworn gets a positive mention now and then. Reddit also has the advantage of being indexed by search engines. I don't love the upvote/downvote mechanisms and the search features, but I otherwise like Reddit for its visibility and potential for growing the community.
Discord (https://discord.gg/8fpWH6J)
I love our discord server! You should totally join it! However, it is a chat-based client and thus content is pretty ephemeral. It's also walled off from public view and from search engines. Thus, it's probably not a great choice if we are trying to create a semi-official home. But, seriously, it's a great place -- so please hop over and say hi!
Thoughts? What options am I missing?
I feel like you. I've joined several groups on MeWe, but I don't feel like I will stay there as I've stayed here. It lacks a lot of usability, for my taste.
ReplyDeleteFacebook? Ugh, gods no.
I'm not a fan of Discord either, except for actual voice chats.
I've never tried Reddit, there was too much BS flying around on many occasions when I actually went there to look something up. But from the alternatives I know, it seems to be the best option. I'd give it a try, if Ironsworn went there.
I wouldn't advise to go for a private forum either, for the same reasons you mentioned. It's a lot of work to keep that maintained.
Shawn Tomkin I might add a Mastodon/Pluspora/Frendica continuum option, though it seems those require some technical savvy that could impact adoption.
ReplyDeleteSadly, I don't think anything is going to equal the features and functionality of G+ but the world does move on.
You lay some solid groundwork on what you feel you ultimately need from a space. Build or buy is the overarching question along with data privacy and integrity. Building out your blog makes complete sense but the power of first movers (FB and/or Reddit) for visibility can hardly be overstated.
I like Reddit - I find it to be an interesting crossroads - but that doesn't keep it from becoming a political battleground or get around the 'users-as-product' questions that free sites will continue to raise. Such a mixed bag and change is never easy, especially with such a niche hobby and so many options on the market.
Agree with everything said so far. No perfect option yet. There's always the possibility that another option shows up before next year's deadline, a bit like "The old reader" gained traction as Google Reader was sunset.
ReplyDeleteSo far, I have not seen any "go-to" platform to migrate to. RPG Community is getting fractured, as most people have strong diverging opinions on what is acceptable. I personally like MeWe the most, but its core user base could mean trouble down the road (in many ways). And there's the visibility issues. Have you tried Pages yet? They are supposed to be public, and I was able to create one for free. But it appears posts can only be initiated by its owner, so it cannot be used to emulate a "public" community. Unless I misunderstand. But if this is meant to become answer to lack of public communities, I'm afraid it might prove insufficient. Alas.
Some have mentioned moving to an already established RPG forum, recently saw a post about moving to RPGgeek.com or boardgamegeek. Unless any specific forum appears to attract several RPG communities, not clear on whether I would follow them there.
There's a Community where the G+ RPG community is discussing evac options. There is a maintained spreadsheet listing numerous options broken out by features etc.
ReplyDeleteG+ RPG Escape Rocket
Me personally, I have numerous and severe reservations about MeWe and am not going over there. Friendica (there's an RPG-focused instance at rpgtable.top) and Pluspora are being mentioned more frequently by those folks who weren't immediately bolting out the door for MeWe on Sunset Day 1.
I'll always be around on Discord, but as you say, that's not the optimal "home base" for a community like this. I've considered Discord a great adjunct for a community that lives elsewhere.
On the plus side, MeWe are actively pursuing compatibility with the Solid framework. Whether either platforms actually succeed is a big maybe, but there's a laudable attempt. Just an extra small plus.
ReplyDeleteen.wikipedia.org - Solid (web decentralization project)
👂
ReplyDeleteI think you've covered all the options, as well as my feelings about them. I have no advise to give, since as you note, there really aren't any great alternatives IMO. I have no plans to join any other social media, so where ever you end up, good luck & maybe I'll see everyone there.
ReplyDeleteTotally agree that there is no best option: MeWe for the political aspect, Discord because it’s an endless scrolling chat thread, Facebook has us own problems and many of us keep for non-gaming content. The IndieWeb project is a possible solution - www.indieweb.org - but I’ve only just come across it so I don’t know if that’s viable or not.indieweb.org - IndieWeb
ReplyDeleteNothing adequately fills the coming void, and it distresses me.
ReplyDeleteMatt Horam I'm still hopeful that RPG-wide community efforts will either unearth a pretty-damn-decent replacement, or modify something existing to the point where it becomes suitable. I've heard that there are folks busy hacking up Pluspora to add Plus-like features that were notably missing from Diaspora the day the sunset announcement was made.
ReplyDeleteG+ really is the best engineered one around. You could also try Roleplaycafe.com. It's small but could grow. Or there's RPGgeek.com.
ReplyDeleteOne vote for Reddit. The ironsworn community there is quite nice.
ReplyDeleteI'm with everyone else, none of the presented products quite does for me what G+ does. Having all of my communities flowed together, simple and easy to use product etc.
ReplyDeleteThat said of the choices, I already have a Reddit account, and reddit probably best matches the kind of experience we have here, so that gets my vote.
Personally, I have no experience with MeWe and very little with Discord. Facebook makes my skin crawl. Ergo, of the primary options, my vote would be Reddit. I have experience there, though mostly I lurk. Communities can be good and positive. If Ironsworn goes there, I think it will be counted among the positive subreddits.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said, I am deeply fond of this game and the community that has come up around it. Wherever Shawn plants the Irownsworn flag, I'll be there too. Even if it is a Facebook group.
Voting for Reddit, even though I dont like it. Best of the lot
ReplyDeleteI'm very much at home on the Gaming Tavern Forum.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.gamingtavern.eu/tavern/index.php
It would be manged for you, allows us to automatically link our blogs to it as posts, and is a warm and welcoming community. It has lots going for it and I'd like to see it continue to grow.
The only downside is that it is small and may feel like a bit of a cul-de-sac.
I like it.
gamingtavern.eu - The Tavern
Thanks for all of the input thus far!
ReplyDeleteHave you considered hosting a forum at ironswornrpg.com ? I'm sure it's a pain in the neck, but unlike the other options, it's totally under your control and won't disappear overnight (unless you get spiteful and delete it!).
ReplyDeleteThat being said, Facebook is anathema. Reddit and Discord seem ok. I'm not 100% in love with MeWe, but it's very G+-like and I seem to spend most of my zombie social media time on there.
Yeah, Spencer Salyer, I had a custom forum on my list of possibilities. It's certainly an option, but I'd prefer not to take on the overhead and I'd like to keep things in "public spaces". It's a better way to create visibility. That said, I'll probably investigate it this month to cover my bases.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for the input thus far everyone!
ReplyDeleteReddit is basically a forum,with all the handy features attached,without some of the problems associated with getting a forum up from scratch.Discord,facebook,other less popular options, I'm not a fan of.Too much bells and whistles,but mediocre usability at best
ReplyDeleteThe thing I don't like about Reddit is that it doesn't have personal walls and such.
ReplyDeleteJacob Ross what do you mean by a personal wall?
ReplyDeleteAnd now this (G+ now shutting down in April instead of August) theverge.com - Google will shut down Google+ four months early after second data leak
ReplyDeleteðŸ˜
ReplyDeleteFrickin' so typical of Google... "Let's give people a deadline to plan for. Weeeeeell, let's keep moving it up to push people out, 'cuz we're bored with keeping this thing open." I hate on Microsoft all day long, but I'm seriously reconsidering my relationship with Google...
ReplyDeleteI was big on MeWe at the start of the exodus, but it's kind of like WORK, keeping up with things. It's quite slow in any browser (compared to G+ or reddit), and fiddly (as mentioned above) is a good word for it. That could change in 6 months, but we don't have 6 months now.
I don't need chat. I need something which will stay for the long term, so when I need to search for a prior thread I know it's there to provide me with info. Bookmarkable is a plus. That kind of has me leaning toward Reddit lately. It's grown on me.
Also, Spencer Salyer Zombie social media time... now THAT'S funny!
I downloaded 6gB of posts today and I'm never going to feel like there isn't something getting left behind. Communities, and surprising discoveries from overlapping circles, are going to die here.
ReplyDeleteDan Davis TBH, at this point I cannot fathom that I would ever bring a new Google product or service into my life. I'm an Android/GMail/Google Drive person, but beyond that lock-in, they've basically spent the past while now killing all sorts of things I enjoyed using (Plus) or even relied on (Reader, Inbox). Why trust them any more?
ReplyDeleteI prefer old school bbs/forums, mostly because of the organization of them. "Timeline" style, like Mewe, Discord, Twitter, etc. just is not conducive to discussion. Even G+ isn't what I would call ideal. Given all that, Reddit is probably the closest to a traditional forum without going to an actual forum.
ReplyDeleteRunehammer/ICRPG has put up an incredible site using Discourse. I'm sure if you contact them they can let you know what it took and what kind of upkeep it is requiring.
ReplyDeleteIt's the most "G+ like" site I've seen and if it's simple/reasonable it might be a good option.
forums.runehammer.online - RUNEHAMMER
Those forums are pretty nifty, Aaron Stockser. I lurk in a couple of forums that use Discourse, and like it a lot, though Runehammer seems to have put some technical wizadry in play to modify the default install a fair bit. Also, Runehammer's forums are pretty active, but Brandish has well-deserved huge following, so it's probably not representative of getting people to transition over to a private forum for a typical small press game.
ReplyDeleteShawn Tomkin Understood though I wouldn't sell yourself short (I think Ironsworn and the community are awesome!)
ReplyDeleteI do wonder if it might be possible for a number of smaller indie developers to band together (either with Runehammer or not) to help share development and maintenance costs?
I'd love for there to be a good site for long-form Ironsworn posts to exist as Reddit/FB/Discord really don't do as well for that.