Hi, I ran my first Ironsworn game yesterday. It was a great experience seeing this moves come alive.
Hi, I ran my first Ironsworn game yesterday. It was a great experience seeing this moves come alive.
Here is my question: I experienced that my players quite often got no hits for Undertaking a Journey (Dangerous).
This led to some disappointment, because it felt like a repetition, focusing on making the rolls to go forward. Using Secure an Advantage was also not really helping, because they were often rolling weak hits, leading to a new complications, and we felt running out of ideas what will happen next.
So one Idea would be, using a move like Battle to shorten a Journey. Another idea was using Momentum to compensate for bad rolls, but as my players were rolling badly the Momentum was also turning against them.
What experience have you with this situation?
Here is my question: I experienced that my players quite often got no hits for Undertaking a Journey (Dangerous).
This led to some disappointment, because it felt like a repetition, focusing on making the rolls to go forward. Using Secure an Advantage was also not really helping, because they were often rolling weak hits, leading to a new complications, and we felt running out of ideas what will happen next.
So one Idea would be, using a move like Battle to shorten a Journey. Another idea was using Momentum to compensate for bad rolls, but as my players were rolling badly the Momentum was also turning against them.
What experience have you with this situation?
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ReplyDeleteI don't have a lot of play experience so far, but I have figured out that you need to really focus on your characters' strengths. It's important to use your +3 rolls as much as you can (or even +4 if you can leverage an asset onto your top attribute).
ReplyDeleteI don't know if Shawn has worked out the percentages, but my rough calculation is that you have only about a 30% chance of a strong hit when rolling a +3 action. That's not very high to begin with, and rolling with your +2 or +1 stats is obviously even worse.
Based on that, the Secure an Advantage move might be your best bet, because it lets you choose your best stat. You still gain momentum on a weak hit. Maybe just don't go overboard with the "complications".
I say it "might be" your best bet, because your chances of rolling a miss on something are increased the more moves you make. So, by doing Secure AND Undertake a Journey you have doubled your chances of a miss on one or the other.
Anyway, the point is play to your strength. I made a stealth-based character, and my early fights and beginning of my first journey were disasters because I wasn't trying to be stealthy. You have to maneuver the narrative so that you can allow your character to use his best skills.
Hi, Lars Lo. Sorry that was frustrating!
ReplyDeleteA couple of questions ... First of all, to confirm, you were rolling misses on Undertake a Journey and not weak hits, correct? Your chances of rolling a miss are actually relatively low, especially if you have a high wits character making the move (about a 33% chance of a miss with a +2 stat, or 22% with a +3 stat).
By design, Undertake a Journey is meant to be pretty un-punishing on a weak hit, where most of your rolls will land. It costs you some supply, but you still mark progress, so you are moving forward. Also, you don't have to bend the fiction to come up with complications on weak hits, so it's relatively easy to keep the narrative moving and handwave the travel scenes as you like.
But, bad luck and a string of misses can happen (as you apparently discovered).
The first thing to do with a miss is look at it as an opportunity. Something cool or dramatic is about to happen. Zoom in and play it out. Mechanically, it might be an opportunity for players to build momentum through moves within that scene.
If you get on a string of bad rolls and roll more misses, you'll probably want to manage the focus to not turn every miss into a big narrative event. You lose some supply. The weather turns foul and tests your endurance or mood (Face Danger, or suffer a loss of health or spirit). Just gloss over what happens, (stay zoomed out), and get back to a hopefully more positive result on your next journey roll. Mix it up.
On the topic of rolling weak hits with Secure an Advantage ... you don't need to come up with a complication every time. Note the "your advantage is short-lived" text in the weak hit. This gives you an opportunity to just take the +1 momentum and move along. If you can't think of anything interesting as a complication, or if you are on a string of weak hits, just take the bonus and frame it in the fiction as only a minor advantage which doesn't last.
Lastly, some general strategies for Undertake a Journey ...
- If you have multiple folks at the table, it's a good idea to have one of them with wits as a favored stat and/or an appropriate assets which can help on journeys (for example: Horse, Wayfinder, and Shadow-Walk).
- Other players can Aid Your Ally to help support the journey using their favored stat. Again, even on a weak hit, it's +1 momentum, and a strong hit can give the player making the journey move a +1 (and those stack!).
- You don't need to fill your progress track to Reach Your Destination. If things get to be a slog, just make the move and see what happens. 3 weak hits (+6 progress) on a dangerous Undertake a Journey will put you in good position. Heck, even only +4 on your progress track still gives you even odds of a hit. A miss on this move is an opportunity to take the quest in a dramatic new direction.-
Or, switch it up. Make Camp or Sojourn during your journey. Zoom in to play out narrative interactions just to give everyone a break from the mechanics. During the journey, make sure you are taking opportunities to add texture to the scenes by envisioning the environment and what your characters are doing. A focus on the dice can get a bit monotonous, so it's important to vary your pace and not focus exclusively on the moves.
Sorry for the long post! I hope it's helpful and that it's a bit less frustrating for you next time. Let me know how it goes!
Shawn Tomkin Sorry for the long post!
ReplyDeleteReally good post. The zoom in zoom out terminology will be helpful to keep in mind, among other things.
Shawn Tomkin Thanks for your post. It helped me a lot. Especially the referral to „your advantage is short-lived“. I played some DungeonWorld and there I was alway busy to think of things that causes some new problem that has to be solved or make up some lasting cost.
ReplyDeleteIn your way I could just mention something problematic on the way that is already solved or just describe that the PCs barely managed it to solve the problem.
Yep! You'v got it, Lars Lo. Spend your creative energy on the moments that really matter, or when you have a bit of inspiration which takes the story in an interesting direction. If someone rolls a match and has to Pay the Price, use that as a prompt to take a moment and twist the knife, narratively speaking. Also, feel free to turn to your players for their ideas on what happens next.
ReplyDeleteShawn Tomkin I spend some more time thinking about about my question, reading some of the other articles, where I found a similar case by +Josh Symonds. You asked whether there was a string of misses and you were right about this idea. There was one player having a lot of bad luck this evening (and not only this evening).
ReplyDeleteMaybe I am a little to softhearted as an Ironsworn-GM, but I had two ideas to help such players. One thing would be to make Secure an Advantage an automatic move like Aid your Alley, giving the player the choice between +1 momentum or add +1 to the next roll.
The other idea was to offer some kind of „Devil’s Bargain“ as in Blades in the Dark. Weak hit with an additional Pay the Price results in a strong hit. No hit with two times Pay the Price results in a weak hit.
Hi, Lars Lo. Devil's Bargain is a valid approach. Some moves, such as Face Danger, already have this baked into weak hits and misses. As a GM, you can offer bargains if you think it works better with the current narrative or better pushes forward the story. But, I'd also consider letting misses be misses except in situations where a string of bad rolls is tipping into frustration or ridiculous coincidence. Not everything is "failing forward" in Ironsworn, but everything is intended to result in some sort of change to the current situation -- especially misses.
ReplyDeleteIn the end, hopefully, math will win out over bad luck.
I'm not quite sure I get your meaning on letting Secure an Advantage be an automatic move. Aid Your Ally isn't automatic either -- it's basically a framing device for Secure an Advantage where you make the move and your ally takes the benefits.
Shawn Tomkin „math will win over bad luck“ I have seen to much of the opposite, so I guess I am superstitious. :-))
ReplyDeleteAutomatic move - I meant something like this: „When you assess a situation, make preparations, or attempt to gain leverage, envision your action and >take +1 momentum or< roll. ...“
Of course this could be abused by players. Depends on the GM to limit it. But I understand your idea of not having a „failing forward“ for the tone of the game