Hey people!
Hey people! I'm really at a loss here, I think I'm not grasping how to handle milestones and pacing, including hot to set difficulties for my quests.
So, for example, I made a vow, an inciting incident about a cockatrice eating the cattle and horses of an impoverished town. My hero sets his sights on slaying the beast and I give it a formidable rank. From here I get lost.
The vow starts as a weak hit, meaning I have to do some research about the beast and where it lives. Weak hit again. I discover it goes to an arid mountain in the distance and my character isn't really a climber; not to mention he lacks a ranged weapon to face the beast who has aerial advantage.
So, I ask if there's a smithy in the town, and I get yes. He's a reclusive old man from another country who pretty much makes stuff just because it's his craft and he doesn't sells weapons just to anyone. I go and compel him into giving me a vow by giving him a speech of how much the town needs the beast gone or people will pass hunger, or worse, once the herds are gone it will start preying on humans. Strong hit. He decides to give the hero an old bow and steel arrows, and says he admires him for doing what even the few guardsmen of the town fear.
So.... if this progress? Because from here on I'm lost on what progress for a "go and kill a beast" vow would be like... I don't see many other challenges besides getting safely to the mountain, climbing it, and slaying it. Not enough progress would come out of that (besides from random, unexpected stuff) for a formidable rank quest, and well... I thought maybe that means it's a dangerous quest, but how would it be dangerous if I'm facing a deadly foe like the cockatrice (Formidable)?
I also thought about finding stuff that would make my hero resistant to the monster's petrifying breath, but since I got a weak hit on his gather information roll to get to know the creature, I DOUBT he knows about it...
What should I do?
So, for example, I made a vow, an inciting incident about a cockatrice eating the cattle and horses of an impoverished town. My hero sets his sights on slaying the beast and I give it a formidable rank. From here I get lost.
The vow starts as a weak hit, meaning I have to do some research about the beast and where it lives. Weak hit again. I discover it goes to an arid mountain in the distance and my character isn't really a climber; not to mention he lacks a ranged weapon to face the beast who has aerial advantage.
So, I ask if there's a smithy in the town, and I get yes. He's a reclusive old man from another country who pretty much makes stuff just because it's his craft and he doesn't sells weapons just to anyone. I go and compel him into giving me a vow by giving him a speech of how much the town needs the beast gone or people will pass hunger, or worse, once the herds are gone it will start preying on humans. Strong hit. He decides to give the hero an old bow and steel arrows, and says he admires him for doing what even the few guardsmen of the town fear.
So.... if this progress? Because from here on I'm lost on what progress for a "go and kill a beast" vow would be like... I don't see many other challenges besides getting safely to the mountain, climbing it, and slaying it. Not enough progress would come out of that (besides from random, unexpected stuff) for a formidable rank quest, and well... I thought maybe that means it's a dangerous quest, but how would it be dangerous if I'm facing a deadly foe like the cockatrice (Formidable)?
I also thought about finding stuff that would make my hero resistant to the monster's petrifying breath, but since I got a weak hit on his gather information roll to get to know the creature, I DOUBT he knows about it...
What should I do?
Hello!
ReplyDeleteWell, getting the equipment needed would probably count for progress.
You could also argue that because it is such a formidable foe, your hero should try to get some real information about the beast by visiting a sage. This could encompass another travel in search of the sage and then getting the sage to give you the information. Which could then lead to get that equipment to protect the hero from the petrifying breath, which offers additional chances.
Going in without knowing much about the beast, or even worse, going in knowing about the petrification without knowing how to protect yourself from it, sounds rather foolhardy. So, unless your hero is portrayed as a rash character, I think using research by seeking out possible sources of information is reasonable.
Yours,
Deathworks
Well, he's a young novice swordsman with wanderlust, seeking to prove his brother he's more than ready to leave farm life and venture into the world to seek fame so... He's foolhardy indeed xD
ReplyDeleteBecause you probably want to have at least 7 progress before attempting to Fulfill Your Vow you should have at least a sketch of some milestones in mind before you Swear an Iron Vow. For a Troublesome vow you are going to need 3 milestones and for a Dangerous vow you'll need 4. If you don't already have an idea for at least 2 (3 for dangerous) of those you should probably just overcome whatever you have to overcome and not bother swearing a vow because there is not enough there to build into enough adventure to be able to fulfill that vow per the rules. The normal weak hits in the game and oracles will probably give you ideas for a milestone or two to fill up the progress track but if you can't envision having to go through a few steps then its probably not Vow worthy. For Troublesome or Dangerous Vows think of them sort of like a Dora the Explorer episode with 3 clear steps; first you find the Spear of Light, then you cross the Howling River, then you fight the Forest Troll. More serious vows require even more steps, Formidable 7 steps for a reasonable chance to fulfill and Extreme (14) and Epic (28) steps just to get to roll against 7 in those cases with that much work put in it would be tempting to put in even more steps in so you have a better chance at the big payoff... its one thing to miss the fulfill move after 3 milestones and have to restart but another to fail after putting in 12 or more milestones.
ReplyDeleteJeremy Epp Which makes my vow to kill the cockatrice seem Dangerous Rank.
ReplyDeleteBut the cockatrice is a formidable foe... Can I face higher ranked enemies in lower level quests?
Some thoughts:
ReplyDeleteWhen you take a vow, envision not just how "tough" the quest is, but also how complex it is. A fairly straightforward quest, even against a tough foe, will probably be a lower-ranked vow because there are fewer potential milestones and complications. There is not necessarily any correlation between the challenge rank of an enemy and the challenge rank of a quest.
For example, defeating a powerful human, even though they are only dangerous in a fight, might be a high-ranked quest because that person has political power, support, allies, etc.
Or, slaying a formidable beast might only be a dangerous quest because it's a relatively simple matter of traveling from A to B and killing the thing.
When I take a vow, I'll usually bullet point out some potential milestones, or at least think over it. What sort of things will I need to do to fulfill this vow? What are the complications inherent in this quest? If a vow seems too simple and straightforward, add in some complications to give it some teeth.
In the case of your story, I would imagine things like:
- Get suitable weapons/equipment
- Get information on the nature of the beast and its weaknesses
- Get some sort of mystic protection against its petrifying breath
- Travel to the area where it nests
- Track it to its nest/lair (is this something I am even capable of? Do I need to gain the support of an NPC tracker?)
- Defeat it
That's six milestones, plus probably a couple of more that will arise out of journeys and complications. So, figure 7-9. That's right in the range of a formidable vow.
In your example, I am reminded of the Witcher games. The monster-slaying quests require him to follow some breadcrumbs, interview some folks, gather information on his foe, prepare some specific potions, etc. It's very rarely go from here to there and kill the thing.
Think of it from a story perspective. The complications and obstacles are what make it interesting. If you're invested (narratively) in this quest, and want to spend a bit of time on it, envision how you can make it a bit richer and more complex. Ironsworn is designed to encourage you to add depth and complications; your reward is more XP.
Finally, look to the move for guidance on milestones:
"When you make significant progress in your quest by overcoming a critical obstacle, completing a perilous journey, solving a complex mystery, defeating a powerful threat, gaining vital support, or acquiring a crucial item..."
All of the items on that list map fairly neatly to one or more of the milestones I suggested above.
Hope that helps!
Oh, and to your point above on the petrifying breath ... I'm not sure if I would withhold that info from my character. A weak hit or miss on Gather Information might reveal that aspect of the creature. Remember the text of the move: "The information complicates your quest or introduces a new danger" (weak hit) or "your investigation unearths a dire threat or reveals an unwelcome truth that undermines your quest" (miss). Those results are great opportunities to introduce something about your quest that forces you to overcome an obstacle. In this case, "holy crap, that bird can petrify me with its breath!", is going to perhaps require a new approach or some mystical remedy to deal with it. Taking care of that gives you a new potential milestone.
ReplyDeleteThat's one of the reasons I like to keep the nature and capabilities of beasts, horrors, etc. in my world somewhat undefined. It's part of what I can discover through play. Oh, it turns out this thing has hide as tough as iron. How do I deal with that? Play to find out.
Shawn Tomkin Yup, it definitely helps! I envision it more as some sort of "personal initiation" and less Geralt of Rivia, but it really, really helps me get the larger scope of things and how Vows work :D
ReplyDelete