A discussion over on RPG.net about Ironsworn vows.
A discussion over on RPG.net about Ironsworn vows. Would love to hear from others on how the mechanics and the fiction of Ironsworn vows are working for you (or not working!)
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?824768-Ironsworn-Scoping-your-vows-well
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?824768-Ironsworn-Scoping-your-vows-well
Shawn Tomkin, I've been thinking about the Secure Advantage move. I've noticed that I'm using it less simply because the +1 Forward (PbtA terminology) only comes up on a strong hit and those aren't likely. Is it too powerful to have it be an option on a weak hit? Possibly tempered with a consequence? Or would that make it too useful and undercut more focuswd assets like Ritualist?
ReplyDeleteInteresting Jeremiah Wenneker. I tend to choose the +2 momentum more than the +1 forward, and the weak hit on Secure an Advantage still offers a reasonable benefit with the +1. It's a a fairly safe move that I am trying to encourage use of, but perhaps I have not woven in enough encouragement.
ReplyDeleteI'm hesitant to add the +1 forward to the weak hit result, but I do want to make sure that there's enough value inherent to the move for people to be using it.
At some point I considered making the +2 momentum benefit a +3, with a +2 on the weak hit, which might make momentum (and the weak hit result) a more compelling choice for you. But, that was feeling a bit too robust at the time. Combine it with an asset, and you're talking +4 momentum, half-way up the track. Feature or a bug? Not sure.
Shawn Tomkin I wonder if I'm being too conservative in burning of Momentum. I had been thinking that the +1 Forward makes the next move more reliable and that struck me as being of greater benefit.
ReplyDeleteRandom thought: what about organizing Secure Advantage similar to Make Camp. On Strong Hit choose two advantages, on a Weak Choose one.
- +2 Momentum
- +1 on the next roll & +1 Momentum
- +1 on a later fictionally appropriate roll.
I'm not sold on the wording or the choices, both could certainly be cleaned up. I'm just working of the cuff.
I definitely hoard my Momentum as well Jeremiah Wenneker, trying to save it for that crucial moment where it's win or die. (I'm like that in all games though, I hoard resources like nobody's business.) I generally do take the momentum choice on Secure Advantage though (and then never use it XD). I'm actually not sure that I've ever used the +1 forward. I'm not saying that's a game flaw though, just my play-style
ReplyDeleteYou're thinking follows my own, Jeremiah Wenneker, and I've been down a similar path, and then walked back and forth along that path a few times ;)
ReplyDeleteTo me, your second option would be the obvious choice, since it offers a "best of both worlds" benefit.
One thing to consider is that +1 in Ironsworn has less impact (mathematically) than +1 in a straight 2d6 PbtA game. Plus, you are taking the risk of it ending up being wasted because you rolled poorly, versus the "sure thing" of +2 momentum.
Generally, I want to err on the side of encouraging folks to accrue and burn momentum, 'cause it's super-cool for the fiction. People seem to be doing that in their playthroughs, and they seem to be using the SaA move, but it's a super-important part of the system so I want to make sure I've got it right.
I am not familiar with Burning Wheel, PbtA and I haven't played much with Ironsworn yet, so my comments are quite superficial. As a solo player, I find Vows useful in describing my character and guiding her decisions. Presently, I find she has been carried away by events that have largely overwritten her Vow (at least her "minor" "tactical" vow) and I like that! As a soloist, an unexpected story always makes me happy :)
ReplyDeleteI now wonder if Amara should forsake her minor vow, but I think I might just as well keep it "frozen" in the background and see if it becomes relevant in the next few sessions.
Shawn Tomkin, given the intention to encourage the building and burning of momentum, then you probably have the right balance. I've been mulling it over in my head, probably wearing down the trails you've already walked on the matter. I'll try to use momentum more in my next few playthroughs and see if that makes the move feel more relevant.
ReplyDeleteSomething I am trying to force myself to do is to burn momentum and trigger the progress moves (Reach your destination, End the Fight, Furfill a Vow) at about 8 rather than filling the bar completely. I like others here have a tendency to hoard and fill out the progress bar completely. But rolling against 8 is still very good odds and it opens the possibility of interesting stuff happening. Also rolling against 8 or so means skipping a step or two in the grind part which is probably also a good thing - especially if you get a strong hit that takes you to 7 or 8 progress and then nibble the rest of the progress bar with minor hits and then never seem to get a strong hit again to actually let you trigger the End the Fight move.
ReplyDeleteI'm also thinking if I Burn Momentum at 8 or so with the Veteran Asset that means I am only building up 4-6 momentum before I burn again, which is a pretty short burn cycle for lots of Awesome moments.
As to the Secure Advantage, I've been using it a fair bit and taking the +1 forward but then my test character has Brawler that gets extra benefits from the move and it seems natural to do the harm and then push on with a bonus to strike to do a bunch more harm and trigger the End the Fight - works well for Troublesome-Dangerous type foes.