Hi Shawn.
Hi Shawn. If I never said before: thanks. I skimmed thru the manual a couple of times, and I like what I see. I feel this RpG can hit a nice spot between the various PbtA games, Cortex+, Fate etc. Absolutely I'd try it, probably as Solo Play, initially, to see if it shines as it seems.
I hope I'll have enough time (and passion) to report some (hopefully) feedback.
If I can start with something right now, probably I'd organize the book in a different way.
Playing Ironsworn chapter is pretty good as initial overview, as summary. Maybe you don't need to show the character's sheet here (pag 6), you can wait the character generation chapter. Then (pag 7) you start with Moves and
Action Roll, Momentum etc. (ie. rules!), and I feel this could be explained AFTER the character generation. It could be daunting for someone to be overloaded with info, at least in the initial stage. I'd probably put "build your world" now, and after that the "create your character" part.
In the character chapter: I'd put all the Debilities (conditions + burdens + banes) in the (hypotetical) Rules chapter after the character part. It's all rules, no useful in the creation. Put just a couple of rows about those, something like the black box at pag. 36.
Pag. 37: Vows are a very important part in the character generation, they give motivation and spring the initiala action: I feel there's too little space devoted to this part, here. Also, it refers at the Swear an Iron Vow move (good) and gives the Rank description... but when I go at pag. 95 I see the rules, but no mention about the various Ranks! So here I lose myself, and I'm not sure how I should procede, and I have no Idea if put something as Epic, or Troublesome etc. So, I need to search something about that: I found it at pag. 15 (but probably your readers have skipped that part, 'cause the wall of rules I was talking about before ;-P ).
Ok, that's enough for now. I hope this stuff can be of some utility for you!
I hope I'll have enough time (and passion) to report some (hopefully) feedback.
If I can start with something right now, probably I'd organize the book in a different way.
Playing Ironsworn chapter is pretty good as initial overview, as summary. Maybe you don't need to show the character's sheet here (pag 6), you can wait the character generation chapter. Then (pag 7) you start with Moves and
Action Roll, Momentum etc. (ie. rules!), and I feel this could be explained AFTER the character generation. It could be daunting for someone to be overloaded with info, at least in the initial stage. I'd probably put "build your world" now, and after that the "create your character" part.
In the character chapter: I'd put all the Debilities (conditions + burdens + banes) in the (hypotetical) Rules chapter after the character part. It's all rules, no useful in the creation. Put just a couple of rows about those, something like the black box at pag. 36.
Pag. 37: Vows are a very important part in the character generation, they give motivation and spring the initiala action: I feel there's too little space devoted to this part, here. Also, it refers at the Swear an Iron Vow move (good) and gives the Rank description... but when I go at pag. 95 I see the rules, but no mention about the various Ranks! So here I lose myself, and I'm not sure how I should procede, and I have no Idea if put something as Epic, or Troublesome etc. So, I need to search something about that: I found it at pag. 15 (but probably your readers have skipped that part, 'cause the wall of rules I was talking about before ;-P ).
Ok, that's enough for now. I hope this stuff can be of some utility for you!
PS: I know, there's little space in the handouts. However, under Unertake a Journey, it's useful to put the missing "And choose one" under the Strong Hit result, before the • list.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for the feedback, Andrea Parducci. Writing and organizing the initial sections were a real challenge, and I'm sure I can do better. To be honest I'm not sure If it will get a dramatic refit during this release phase, but I will see about tidying up and make sure that things are getting properly cross-referenced when appropriate. Your feedback will really help.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Undertake a Journey move, no idea how I missed that missing "choose one" all this time. Thanks for calling it out!
Pag 9 "You want it to be greater than the individual value of
ReplyDeletethose dice." That "greater" should be higlighted, I think, 'cause it's a big point to remember (lot of systems use Roll >= TN as main mechanic).
I'm Reaching my Destination right now, and damn, after double checking that rule, with 9 boxed marked, I got a puny Weak Hit! 😖 😅
A question. In "standard" PbtA games, a miss isn't a "failure". Usually it's simply a "GM makes a move". I love this thing.
ReplyDeleteFor example, if a character is climbing, and roll a miss, other RpGs usually make the character falling down (with more or less crunch in the rules). In Apocalypse World I can easily say "Joe climbs with no exertion, BUT, once on the top of the cliff, he sees an handful of enemies approaching fast".
In Ironsworn, from what I read, a miss is a failure, AND something bad happens. Am I correct on this reading?
Ie. In my actual play, my character has Visage asset. I rolled for it, and I had a miss. Now what? I should Pay the Price. I did it random, and I rolled "It takes extra time... Suffer - momentum". This made me thinking: Should I gain something from my Visage move, BUT I lost lot of time and -2 momentum? Or, should I gain nothing from my Visage, AND I lost lot of time, and -2 momentum?"
Andrea Parducci ... you can use the miss outcome from the Face Danger move as your default "what happens" when using a self-contained asset move (such as a ritual).
ReplyDeleteHere's the text from that move:
"On a miss, you fail, or your progress is undermined by a dramatic and costly turn of events. Pay the Price."
(Note: The wording here is actually a tweak from previous versions, so your copy may be slightly different).
The end result is you can "fail forward" on a ritual, but it should be at a pretty dire cost.
That said, Ironsworn is not quite as rigid about always failing forward as you will see in some narrative RPG's. There should always be some outcome other than "nothing happens", but sometimes it's OK to just mark some momentum loss, some harm, or some stress, and get on with things. It's all about the context and how much focus or importance that move has in your fiction.
In the super useful Handout PDF, I'd insert, in the Combat page, a short paragraph about the standard harm inflicted (1 with no lethal weapons, 2 with lethal etc.) AND the "multiplier" depending on the enemy rank.
ReplyDeleteEDIT: the "multiplier" is already there, I overlooked the Enter the Fray move, there you wrote about the progress/damage. However, the first part could still be userful, it should need a single line or two.
About combat and Securing an Advantage.
ReplyDeleteI found at page 84 "Secure an Advantage can be used whenever you have initiative. Mechanically,
it’s a powerful move for building your momentum track toward a decisive action. Narratively, it’s a great way to bring cinematic action into the scene."
In my actual play I tried to gain an advantage during a fight (trying to inject some cool narrative into a "boring" strike > strike > strike chain). I did it, but I gained a weak hit. So, I simply had +1 Momentum, and a new "complication". My question is: can/cannot sometime/everytime this complication steal the initiative from me? If yes, then it's a pretty harsh maneuver to try in combat: even with a 6 on the die and a +3 on the Stat, my character has a "meager" 64% of a Strong Hit (and of course my character had no +3 Stat, and no 6 on the die 😜). Hints? Suggestions?
Hi, Andrea Parducci. Thanks for the thought! There are a couple of things to consider with Secure an Advantage in a fight...
ReplyDelete1) Secure an Advantage let's you use your preferred stat. Unlike Strike, which locks you into iron (or perhaps edge) you can bring other stats into play if you can justify it in the fiction. A high wits character can outsmart their foes. A high heart character can strengthen their resolve. A high shadow character can sneak, feint, etc. A high iron character would probably be more inclined to bash their way through the problem via Strike, which seems fine from a roleplaying perspective.
2) The right asset can give a pretty dramatic uplift for Secure an Advantage in a fight, giving you +1 add and +1 momentum on a hit (Note: Some assets currently restrict this to a strong hit, but that is changing!)
3) Note that the weak hit result gives you a fair bit of latitude. "your advantage is short-lived" is just that. You gained some ground, but then things go against you (you lose initiative). You still gain that +1 momentum. In combat, losing initiative is enough of a penalty, and I wouldn't necessarily stack more on top of that in terms of complications unless you've got an idea and want to push your character hard.
4) The relatively low chance of getting a strong hit is one of the factors that drives momentum. Accumulating momentum, even if it can be a bit of a slog for your character, can pay big dividends for a critical move.
5) To be honest, I hope that people sometimes do things that aren't mechanically optimal. Sometimes, a non-optimal choice can be the best and most interesting option and fit the fiction of the moment. Ironsworn has never been particularly focused on balance (as you can probably tell!). That said, I do want to make sure that moves are useful and engaging, and if I need to tune the dials here I am completely open to it. I have been thinking about Secure an Advantage and its rewards, but a minor change has pretty big ramifications.
Thanks for the replies. About 3, I'll return to my AP to see exactly what I set for that moment. About the 1 & 6, usually I take sub-optimal choices during my adventures, 'cause I feel that good, compelling narration trumps the mechanical tactical advantage. However, I love that the system shows balanced, interesting choices, avoiding obvious loopholes or useless choices,' cause when I choice those options, I hope they are useful as they should.
ReplyDeleteAgain, thanks for your system and your time, sir.
About the phrase at page 42:"If you roll a 1 on your action die when aided by a companion, any negative outcome of that move should involve your companion. " I think this could find some space on the Handout (under the Other Moves to Make in Combat, maybe?). Also, I know that there's so little space on those Asset Cards, still mabye a combination like this "🎲💥", in a corner, could be useful as reminder that if you roll a 1, you should apply the consequence on the companion.
ReplyDelete