Hi everyone.
Hi everyone. I've been really loving Ironsworn. I made some small tweaks and have been solo playing a medieval knight roaming around a vaguely Arthurian setting. Its really scratching my itch for what I want out of roleplaying games.
I tried it out today playing co-op with my girlfriend and have a question about the Aid Your Ally move, specifically when you get a miss. I found myself often using the move to set up for my gf's roll and to keep myself in the fiction even when I wasn't doing the main roll. This meant that I often felt like there weren't real stakes to my rolls, and the Pay The Price felt a bit forced for them. For instance, what would you suggest the consequences be for failing to Aid Your Ally as they Swear An Iron Vow? It feels like the real consequences, that we actually care about, are tied to the vow move. Would it be a good idea to take the failure you'd use for the 'real move'? Sorry if this isn't very well explained. It was just something that felt weird to me while playing.
EDIT: I've thought about it some more. The thing I find strange is that helping an ally has its own move with its own consequences when the real stakes are tied to the move they're aiding. Would it break anything for help to just add +1 or +1 momentum to the main move instead of rolling a seperate move to Aid your Ally? There's still a risk since you'll be fictional tied to the consequences of a miss.
I tried it out today playing co-op with my girlfriend and have a question about the Aid Your Ally move, specifically when you get a miss. I found myself often using the move to set up for my gf's roll and to keep myself in the fiction even when I wasn't doing the main roll. This meant that I often felt like there weren't real stakes to my rolls, and the Pay The Price felt a bit forced for them. For instance, what would you suggest the consequences be for failing to Aid Your Ally as they Swear An Iron Vow? It feels like the real consequences, that we actually care about, are tied to the vow move. Would it be a good idea to take the failure you'd use for the 'real move'? Sorry if this isn't very well explained. It was just something that felt weird to me while playing.
EDIT: I've thought about it some more. The thing I find strange is that helping an ally has its own move with its own consequences when the real stakes are tied to the move they're aiding. Would it break anything for help to just add +1 or +1 momentum to the main move instead of rolling a seperate move to Aid your Ally? There's still a risk since you'll be fictional tied to the consequences of a miss.
In the case of Aiding Swear an Iron Vow, maybe your character suddenly gets a premonition that this vow will end badly and suffers a loss of Spirit or Momentum.
ReplyDeleteIf the other character is swearing the vow publicly and the Aid moves represents you publicly swearing with her, maybe she does fine (depending on her roll) but someone important in the audience feels your character looks weak or insincere complicating your interactions with that person or community in the future.
Alice Southey Those are some great ideas that I'll definitely use! I suppose to better articulate my point: it feels like failing on assist moves is either of too little consequence or basically amounts to a failure for the real roll, even if they get a strong hit afterwards.
ReplyDeleteHi, Sam Carr. Aid Your Ally (and Secure an Advantage) is designed to not be too punishing. Making a move is risky as-is, and having an Aid Your Ally move trigger an auto-fail on the allies move would probably make it not worth trying. That said, there are certainly situations where a dramatic failure when you Aid Your Ally might cause a snowball effect which undermines your ally's effort.
ReplyDeleteI understand this can be a bit challenging to wrap back into the fiction. Let's take a look at a couple of examples.
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The Move
You Aid Your Ally by scouting ahead (Secure an Advantage +wits) when they Undertake a Journey, and roll a miss.
Miss Examples
You stumble into a band of elven scouts, and zoom in to see what happens.
You waste time, which you represent as momentum loss for both you and your ally.
You find yourself lost for a time in the disorienting mist of the witchwood, plagued by the whispers of a raider you killed yesterday, and Endure Stress. You or your ally will need to Face Danger to find each other in the mist before they can make their Undertake a Journey move.
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The Move
You Aid Your Ally by adding your support and offering a gift (Secure an Advantage +heart) as they Forge a Bond with the leader of a large settlement.
Miss Examples
The leader criticizes you, reminding you of your failure in a critical moment. You Endure Stress, and your ally will need to weave their defense of you into the framing of their Forge a Bond move.
The leader rejects your gift, and asks for your heirloom bow as a proper demonstration of your sincerity. If you refuse, they challenge you to a (not deadly) duel. You must Draw the Circle.
The leader tells you that a vow must be sealed in blood. You and Your Ally both Endure Harm.
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The Move
Your Aid Your Ally by standing by them as they Swear an Iron Vow (Secure an Advantage +heart).
Miss Examples
You falter in your conviction and hesitate, and both of you suffer a loss of momentum.
You are reminded of your one true vow, too long left by the wayside, and insist to your ally that you will only aid them in this quest if they first Swear an Iron Vow and commit to yours (good opportunity for the PC vs PC conflict option, see page 232).
You had a forceful speech all prepared, but stammer and embarrass yourself in front of a rival. Endure Stress.
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As I said, it can be challenging to think of a good, dramatic outcome. Don't get too hung up on it. If nothing more interesting occurs to you, just chalk it up to a delay, an injury, personal doubt, etc. and suffer an appropriate minor mechanical penalty. Sometimes you will think of something which makes the moment more dramatic and interesting; other times, it's best to just get on with things.
And, no, it wouldn't break anything to just have Aid Your Ally give an automatic (minor) reward, if that works better for you. It'll make assets a bit less useful in some situations.
Shawn Tomkin These examples are just what I was looking for. Thanks for the response, and for making such an awesome game!
ReplyDeleteMy pleasure, Sam Carr. Thanks for trying out Ironsworn. Couples playing Ironsworn co-op together is my favorite thing, so please let me know how it goes.
ReplyDelete