How would you recommend handling higher level vows?
How would you recommend handling higher level vows? I've been looking at the amount of progress it takes to fulfill vows, and it scales up very quickly for higher level vows.
Vow level 1. Moves to fill progress track: 3-4. Moves/xp: 3-4.
Vow level 2. Moves to fill progress track: 5. Moves/xp: 2.5.
Vow level 3. Moves to fill progress track: 10. Moves/xp: 3.33.
Vow level 4. Moves to fill progress track: 20. Moves/xp: 5.
Vow level 5. Moves to fill progress track: 40. Moves/xp: 8.
The first three are in the same ballpark. Jumping up to a level 4 vow means significantly more checkpoints for each xp. An epic vow means ever more (more than double the number of checkpoints required per xp than one of the easier vows).
It looks like the "optimal" way of playing for PCs would be to try to take a lot of smaller vows, and largely not care about higher level ones. I'd like to encourage more long range and extremely difficult vows. It fits better with the theme and narrative, and it's also just more fun. How would you suggest doing that?
Ideas I had:
- being more liberal with what counts as progress for higher level vows.
- allow PCs to mark progress multiple times when they reach significant milestones for higher level vows.
- hand out some extra xp over the course of fulfilling a higher level vow. Maybe two more for a level 4 vow (one at the halfway and one at the end?) and ~six more for an epic vow (three for significant milestones, plus a bonus three at the end?)
Vow level 1. Moves to fill progress track: 3-4. Moves/xp: 3-4.
Vow level 2. Moves to fill progress track: 5. Moves/xp: 2.5.
Vow level 3. Moves to fill progress track: 10. Moves/xp: 3.33.
Vow level 4. Moves to fill progress track: 20. Moves/xp: 5.
Vow level 5. Moves to fill progress track: 40. Moves/xp: 8.
The first three are in the same ballpark. Jumping up to a level 4 vow means significantly more checkpoints for each xp. An epic vow means ever more (more than double the number of checkpoints required per xp than one of the easier vows).
It looks like the "optimal" way of playing for PCs would be to try to take a lot of smaller vows, and largely not care about higher level ones. I'd like to encourage more long range and extremely difficult vows. It fits better with the theme and narrative, and it's also just more fun. How would you suggest doing that?
Ideas I had:
- being more liberal with what counts as progress for higher level vows.
- allow PCs to mark progress multiple times when they reach significant milestones for higher level vows.
- hand out some extra xp over the course of fulfilling a higher level vow. Maybe two more for a level 4 vow (one at the halfway and one at the end?) and ~six more for an epic vow (three for significant milestones, plus a bonus three at the end?)
I would recommend having the Larger Vow be a "Master Vow" and then having "Sub Vows" that you work on to add progress to the "Master Vow"
ReplyDeleteThis is described starting on page 212 of the core rulebook :)
Justin Gordon has the right of it. The idea is that the big vows will tend to create their own sub-quests or side-quests. You chip away at the big vow, and accumulate XP along the way via related quests. Upping the XP rewards for the big vows might create some double-dip situations. Chapter 7 has a fair bit of info on how this might flow. The example of the character swearing to rid the healer of the pesky harrow spiders is an example of a sub-quest which gives you a iterative reward on a larger quest.
ReplyDeleteGotcha, that makes sense. So they're worth fewer xp when you look at it overall, but each checkpoint (or major milestone, or event, or however you want to think about it) would naturally tend itself to be a vow on its own. So fulfill that vow, mark progress on the epic vow (maybe mark progress several times?) and go from there. So an epic vow is more like a series of nested smaller vows, with a nice boost of xp at the end?
ReplyDeleteProbably not every milestone Joel Britton (or even most), but there will be enough along the way to keep the characters fed with XP (assuming you as the GM are proactive about introducing situations and having NPC's ask for assurances via vows, and that the players are proactive about wanting to right wrongs, form bonds, etc).
ReplyDeleteIt's not the destination, but the journey.
IMHO, formidable is about the sweet spot for vows. Challenging enough to require some table time, but approachable enough to see the light at the end of the tunnel. The extreme or epic background vow , as the book notes, is something that may just sit in the background for a while depending on what else the character is dealing with.
But, even if you like focusing on higher-level vows, you can introduce sub-quests for shorter-term goals. Just don't be too mechanical about it. There's an obvious gameplay loop of vow = XP = more cool stuff!, but hopefully the players are focusing on the story instead of the end goal.
Also, don't forget the suggestion of letting assets drive vows. If a player has their eye on a particular asset, is there a story opportunity there?