Shawn Tomkin I wrote a little bit about how i mesh Ironsworn/Mouse Guard and Perilous Wilds on my About page.
Shawn Tomkin I wrote a little bit about how i mesh Ironsworn/Mouse Guard and Perilous Wilds on my About page.
I have to say, I am more enamored with Ironsworn every time I play. I only have one gripe with the system at the moment: Opposition never acts as long as you throw Strong hits. The flow chart states that after a Strong hit you ask "What do you do next." I know it is statistically unlikely, but sometimes I feel like I could kill a dragon with a knife by: Strike -> Strong hit -> Well I strike again -> Strong hit -> Strike -> ... I fell like really dangerous foes would do something even IF the hero suceeds... not sure whether the rules could just be interpreted differently (which I would gladly do) or if it's a design choice. On that point: I am rolling 10s again and lowered the stats of my character. Thanks for the insight!
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I have to say, I am more enamored with Ironsworn every time I play. I only have one gripe with the system at the moment: Opposition never acts as long as you throw Strong hits. The flow chart states that after a Strong hit you ask "What do you do next." I know it is statistically unlikely, but sometimes I feel like I could kill a dragon with a knife by: Strike -> Strong hit -> Well I strike again -> Strong hit -> Strike -> ... I fell like really dangerous foes would do something even IF the hero suceeds... not sure whether the rules could just be interpreted differently (which I would gladly do) or if it's a design choice. On that point: I am rolling 10s again and lowered the stats of my character. Thanks for the insight!
https://voneisenhut.wordpress.com/about/
Bernhard Lutz I have been a enjoying you APs, as a huge fan of Mouse Guard, and glad you provided this insight. The take a +1 for a -1 in Nature is rather inspiring. I may have to give this a go myself!
ReplyDeleteTo ensure I understand, "For 2 experience points I can buy another character slot. I do this, as I want to explore every character for a bit before falling in love with the next one. For three experience points I can upgrade one of the characters.", so basically for 2 xp you get an Ironsworn Asset and for 3 xp you can upgrade an existing Asset, where an "Asset" in Ironsworn parlance is a mouse within the party?
How do you determine the Nature of the individual mice within the party? Please tell me I don't have to pull out my MG RPG book and make MG RPG characters to determine their Nature. Like I said, LOVE the MG setting, not a big fan of the BW implementation of it. :(
Paying their cost, is like having it so they really can't participate until they do the player's turn in MG RPG and have completed their... it's not a vow in MG... their session objective "I will show them that I am a competent Tender Paw." (Can't believe I can't remember what that's called)
Hi, Bernhard Lutz. Thanks much for providing a bit of insight on how you are merging the rules. I'll give it a look! I'm super-fascinated by this sort of stuff.
ReplyDeleteAs for opposition and strong hits (I assume you're talking about combat), I would frame it more as an issue of control than action. Narratively, keep the foe acting, but strong hits allow you to set the tempo, be proactive, etc. If you continue making strong hits (can I borrow your dice!?), I'd frame it as the foe on their heels, or attacking but missing, etc. In short, do whatever best fits the scene in your head and keeps things exciting and dynamic.
The same applies to actions outside of combat. Strong hits mean you are in control, while weak hits or misses means that you're more often forced to react. Even with strong hits, however, it doesn't mean the world around you is unable to act. Instead, within the fiction, it is you anticipating and being more proactive.
Does that help at all? I'll put a pin in that for myself to look at wording where appropriate.
What I wouldn't do, by default, is apply consequences to your character on a strong hit, even when facing a tough foe or challenge. Make the weak hits and misses have tougher consequences, and frame the narrative as being more dangerous and desperate.
Hopefully shifting the stats down a notch help move towards the tone you're after. I do notice you tend to get a +1 via your mouse skills. Those are a replacement for assets and it should come out in the wash, but they might have broader applicability so are perhaps giving you a bit of a bump in terms of success rates.
Shawn Tomkin I was going to mention the +1 bonuses too, but being new to the system I wasn't sure. I read Bernhard Lutz APs pretty close, again because I am a huge MG fan, and initially until this explanation of how he merged them, I couldn't figure out how he had so many bonuses. I will say, that I did remark to myself that if a +1 here or there weren't present and there would be a lot more Weak Hits and Misses.
ReplyDeleteBut, I am not so sure it is such a bad thing either, at least for the setting being emulated. It is definitely more heroic than Ironsworn's core setting or the setting I am currently playing in. Basically it reads really well and feels appropriate based on my reading of the comics.
But, again, if Bernhard Lutz is getting the feeling that his mice could slay a dragon, a +1 may be a bigger modifier than I envision. I will say I have often wished for a +1 in my AP, especially with my incredibly crappy +Wits! LOL
Then again, I really like how it pulls in the MG flavor... what if he bumped up the Strong and Weak Hit target numbers by one? Would that break the game? Would it take the heroic feel out of the MG mash-up?
Bernhard Lutz, I do hope you don't take my above comments wrong. I really enjoy your APs! I just wonder, based on your comment, if the attributes from MG you are using aren't too wide, or open, to be Ironsworn assets? There isn't a roll, it seems, that you can't find a use for one of them, especially with a larger party. For example, I have 8 AP sessions posted and I can think of maybe one or two uses of Assets in all of them combined. Nikkel, my character, seems to have a lot more Weak Hits than anything, which drives the story for me. Put her in combat though, with a +3 Iron, and yeah, the Strong Hits do start to peek. If I could have a party with her with a +3 Wits guy, a +3 Shadow guy, etc. Woe, watch out. So, yeah, the difference from +1 to +3 is pretty remarkable.
ReplyDeleteI do have a question about Perilous Wilds though, if you don't mind. I just added it to my cart on DriveThru. Do I need DW with it or are you using it standalone with Ironsworn? It looks like a pretty solid addition to my collection, but a 400+ page DW book doesn't really interest me. Thoughts?
John Risus thanks for the kind words. For 2 xp I can buy the ability to field another mouse (asset) in a Ironsworn session. As I am playing Mouse Guard a lot of mice are present in the setting. I want to slowly build up characters in the "new world" so I make myself buy the right to do it via xp. It is still 3xp to buy a new asset (mouse). And it's also 3xp to upgrade an asset (mouse).
ReplyDeleteI give every mouse a nature reset, either based on their MG character or just based on feel. A mousymouse has low nature (I can only use it a few times before it needs a break), a more intelligent, cultured mouse has high nature (I can use it a lot).
Paying their cost is just for me to remember to play towards their goals. Vilppu's cost ist glory. I need to do heroic things with him and others need to acknowledge that he is a big hero. If I do this I reset his nature. This concept is pulled straight from Perilous Wild, it's how NPC followers are payed there. So no MG here at all :).
Shawn Tomkin, John Risus thanks for the comment on my question. Really helpful for me. Reframing things in my mind will still take some time, but thanks to your answer I now understand how I should think about it. Narrating dangerous encounters differently than easy ones is still something I have to work on. I was hoping for a mechanic, because I have the tendency to wiggle my way out of danger if things are getting to grim, while I actually want to play grim adventures at the same time. haha.
As to the wide application of my assets as bonuses. I rolled with d12 for some sessions to offset that. Last session I was experimenting with lower stats for the Ironsworn character. At the moment I like the d12 solution best, as I accumulate quite a bit of bonus from the mice (assets) as you mentioned, but I like it because it reminds me to narrate what the mice actually do.
John Risus I don't actually own DW. I am using Perilous WIlds on its own, to generate "wilderness" - these tables can kinda be used with any game and they give a lot of variety. Some of the other chapters contain more DW-esque rules, but as the two games are pretty close (Ironsworn is inspired by PBTA) can be easly converted. But mostly the book can be used with any rpg.
Thanks to both of you for the long comments. Really enjoy the discussions about the game.
Bernhard Lutz I didn't see anyone tackle one aspect of your question, so I'll have a crack at it.
ReplyDeleteYou're concerned that you could defeat a dragon with a knife on a string of good rolls. My argument would be one of fictional positioning in that case. You have a dagger, the dragon has inch thick iron scales. To me that means that you really can't trigger Strike against the dragon. Fictionally this thing is way out of your league. Difficulty in Ironsworn isnt handled by modifiers like in a more traditional game, but is instead balanced around the application of your moves.
It is entirely within your rights as "GM" to say that a monster is too strong or well armored to Strike at. Then of course comes the quest to learn it's weaknesses and then to return and deal with the threat.
It only took an arrow to kill Smaug, but the Archer had to know where to shoot it based on the lore he had learned.
Hope this helps!