I haven't been able to wrap my head around combat, since the rules state that creatures never roll for moves.
I haven't been able to wrap my head around combat, since the rules state that creatures never roll for moves. I understand you can only strike if you have initiative, otherwise you clash. But if you have initiative, and you strike with a weak hit, initiative shifts to the enemy. Do you have to roll anything else now, or do you continue straight to Clash?
When does the enemy attack? Is that just when you roll a Miss you "Pay the Price" by automatically taking their challenge rating as Harm and roll Endure?
Can anyone provide a quick, non-discript rundown of how moves should be progressing?
From what I am understanding when fighting something Extreme each Strong Hit with a deadly weapon would mark 6 ticks (2 ticks per harm, 3 harm.) So to have a 50% to successfully finish the fight you would need to first hit them at least 4 times with a strong hit. However, if the wyvern ever hits you it does an automatic 4 health damage?
When does the enemy attack? Is that just when you roll a Miss you "Pay the Price" by automatically taking their challenge rating as Harm and roll Endure?
Can anyone provide a quick, non-discript rundown of how moves should be progressing?
From what I am understanding when fighting something Extreme each Strong Hit with a deadly weapon would mark 6 ticks (2 ticks per harm, 3 harm.) So to have a 50% to successfully finish the fight you would need to first hit them at least 4 times with a strong hit. However, if the wyvern ever hits you it does an automatic 4 health damage?
In PbtA games, the GM never rolls. Attacks against the characters take place as a consequence of poor rolls by players. Ironsworn should be similar in that regard.
ReplyDeleteRobert Slaughter I am not familiar with what a PbtA game is. So does the character only take damage as the result of a Miss? And do they just take the creatures harm? I saw somewhere that you would also be able to take other resources, rather than health if it could fit the narrative (as part of resource management.) Which resources would be considered acceptable to do this with? Spirit? Supply? Momentum?
ReplyDeleteHi, Whitlock Shark. Thanks for giving Ironsworn a look and sorry for the frustration. There's a fair bit to unpack here....
ReplyDeleteYou are correct that NPCs don't make moves. That doesn't, however, mean they don't act. If you roll Strike and lose initiative, what dos your foe do next?
Let's say you are in a desperate battle. Your opponent is a giant, nine feet tall. Scary as hell.
You fight with a spear and shield. You have initiative. You Strike, lunging with the spear, and roll a weak hit. You slam the spear into the giant’s leg. Inflict your harm. Mark the progress.
Unfortunately, your foe now has the initiative because of the weak hit.
What happens next?
Stop.
Imagine time frozen. Picture the scene. Morning mist hangs above the ground. The sun is low, casting long shadows. Specks of blood are suspended in the air. Your expression is a mix of determination and fear as your eyes focus on the point of the spear, embedded in the giant’s massive leg. Your foe is reacting to the hit, head back, mouth agape.
This is a moment of high drama. Linger on it for a moment. Imagine what the giant will do next. Does it attack with its weapon? Does it reflexively shove at you? Does it try to grab your spear and snap it in half? If you’re unsure, or want to leave it open to fate, Ask the Oracle.
Whatever the giant does next, it's time for you to make a move as a reaction to the giant's action. If it attacks directly, perhaps you decide to Clash. Or, maybe you duck under your shield, focused on defense, which would be the Face Danger move.
If you get back initiative, you're back in control. Maybe you decide to strike again. Maybe you Secure an Advantage by dodging around behind the giant to get in a better position. You make your move, and then resolve what happens. If the giant keeps initiative, you envision what it does next, and then make appropriate moves to react.
I'll have some detail on this flow in the upcoming "Gameplay in Depth" chapter. If you've got some PbtA experience, you'll be familiar with some of the paradigms that drive this. Otherwise, I hope that some additional examples in that section will help you. Plus, the example plays posted here are great references.
To your second question, remember that you have more options for resolving an attack from your foe than just damage. Your tracks (momentum, health, spirit, supply) can all function as "failure soaks". Plus there are pure narrative complications that can be introduced as the outcome of a weak hit or miss. This is why the Clash move says "Pay the Price", not just suffer -harm.
That said, wyverns are bad-ass. Fight them at your peril :)
Shawn Tomkin Thank you so much for the explaination. Just to be sure then, that I am understanding -- you don't take Health damage unless you Miss and Pay the Price with your Health, right?
ReplyDeleteAlso, how does combat work in a party? Who has initiative then?
I feel like maybe I don't have the right book to explain all of this. Is the preview on the website the only playtesting book, or is there a different one that I somehow missed?
Whitlock Shark, I am basically new to PbtA's (Powered by the Apocalypse) game system and derivatives myself. I bought one setting a while a go and was so lost I never went back to it. But I am starting to get it now with Ironsworn.
ReplyDeleteI will parrot what Shawn Tomkin said, check out the game write ups on here. They, and Shawn's active participation in the group, has really helped me to understand... at least to the point that I hope to start my own story today! It's a very friendly group, so ask tons of questions, I do :)
I always recommend the Dungeon World Guide to anyone new to any of the PbtA games. I think Ironsworn should be no different. Give it a read, then come back to Ironsword. Things should be clearer. Read, especially, the example at the end. Keep in mind 10+ = Strong Hit, 7-9 = Weak Hit, 6- = Miss. http://www.curufea.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=roleplaying:dw:dungeon_world_guide_pdf_version_1.2.pdf
ReplyDeletecurufea.com - www.curufea.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=roleplaying:dw:dungeon_world_guide_pdf_version_1.2.pdf
Whitlock Shark ... regarding the rulebook. You do have the right book, though it is still a work-in-progress and is currently missing the final chapter which will be focused on gameplay principles and examples. I suspect that final chapter will be helpful to you, but I also want to make sure the overall experience is relatively smooth for non-PbtA players. I'd like Ironsworn to be understandable and usable for folks not previously involved with PbtA games, or even people new to narrative roleplaying, GM-less roleplaying, etc. A bit of a lofty goal, but feedback from folks like you definately helps. I hope you'll stick with it if the game is interesting to you despite the frustration.
ReplyDeleteIn the meanwhile, the guide that Eduardo Henrique Schaeffer mentioned is a great primer for some of the player-centric mechanics you will see in Ironsworn. Ironsworn does a bunch of things differently in terms of the strict rules and nomenclature (and Ironsworn's initiative mechanic isn't represented), but it was an invaluable guide for me when first getting into PbtA and Dungeon World (and they, there's plenty of cool games in that family so worth it!)
I am also planning on producing some videos. Starting with character creation, overall mechanics, and then some gameplay in action.
Thanks again.
Here is me practicing some fighting in Ironsworn. The last half of page 1.
ReplyDeletedocs.google.com - Game 1