Just occurred to me to think about the two different kinds of vows people make.
Just occurred to me to think about the two different kinds of vows people make.
The game is largely built around the "quest vow": I promise to go to this place and do this thing, which gets reflected in the progress tracker and the vow moves. All cool so far.
But people also sometimes make vows to perpetually do something, to uphold a commitment that doesn't necessarily have progress and a completion point. Like marriage vows* or swearing loyalty to your traveling companion, or whatever.
In the setting, it would make sense for people (especially ironsworn) to make those commitment vows on iron, too. But the game isn't really built around "tracking" those vows. And I don't think it makes sense to force them into a progress tracking model. But I do think it might be interesting to have a vow of loyalty or something, because then someday you might find yourself having to make a difficult decision about whether to break one vow or another, or something.
Just wondering if anyone has gotten to this ahead of me and has it all more figured out than I do.
The game is largely built around the "quest vow": I promise to go to this place and do this thing, which gets reflected in the progress tracker and the vow moves. All cool so far.
But people also sometimes make vows to perpetually do something, to uphold a commitment that doesn't necessarily have progress and a completion point. Like marriage vows* or swearing loyalty to your traveling companion, or whatever.
In the setting, it would make sense for people (especially ironsworn) to make those commitment vows on iron, too. But the game isn't really built around "tracking" those vows. And I don't think it makes sense to force them into a progress tracking model. But I do think it might be interesting to have a vow of loyalty or something, because then someday you might find yourself having to make a difficult decision about whether to break one vow or another, or something.
Just wondering if anyone has gotten to this ahead of me and has it all more figured out than I do.
Interesting thought, but I guess I don't know why you couldn't if you wanted to.
ReplyDeleteI mean you make progress at it, and it challenges you at times. "I vow to forever protect my home village", or even marriage vows as you suggest (Image of a married man in a brothel Facing Danger just came to me LOL).
I would imagine that they would be "Epic" vows, gaining a single tick on Progression. Especially considering the self imposted time limit, or actually the lack there of.
Since 'you' decide when you try to make Progress mechanically within the system, this could play out - I would think - until it doesn't (ie you release yourself from the Vow (Forsake Your Vow)? Or until you come to the end of your journey (Write Your Epilogue), you set the pace to the completion, or non-completion, of the Vow.
I guess what I am trying to say is it would be all about the pacing.
Shawn Tomkin replied to me previously along these lines when I mentioned a 'historical long term vow', he said, "Some background vows will be something you can chip away at in-between dealing with more pressing matters. Other times, there's a cool synergy that happens because the vows are related. Big vows can even be containers for small vows, if you know what I mean. Successfully fulfilling a short-term vow can serve as a milestone for that bigger vow." He called them nested quests I believe.
Basically I think it could be done fairly easily. Seeing how long 'simple' Troublesome or Dangerous quests can take, I could imagine 20, 30, or more of those nested under a 'Perpetual Vow'! A single Perpetual Vow getting tested for Progression only when those nested vows are completed, and IF successful (ie Strong Hit) you mark a single tick against it. IF every quest you did was a nested quest of the perpetual vow, it would take 40 nested vow resolutions (assuming you successfully rolled progression on the perpetual vow every time). Not counting failures to progression, and other side quests/vow that didn't directly effect the perpetual vow... that would be an amazing campaign IMHO.
Now, that being said, I now am wondering why there are no (unless I missed them in the rules) vow progression setback results. ie On a Miss lose one advancement worth of Progression and think about how this manifests itself within the scene. This could apply to just about any 'wrap it up Move', such as End A Fight, Complete A Vow, Reach Your Destination, etc. (I may have messed up the actual names of those Moves, but I hope you get my point).
What if it was as simple as saying, using Marriage Vows as an example, once you complete the vow you are forever and unconditionally bound, never to be tested again with regards to said vow?
Wow, great question Carl Gerriets, you really got me thinking, and that's a great thing. Even if my response is completely whack-a-do, and not in line with what Shawn envisions. Thanks!
Hmmm, I think a vow, at least from my recent novice experience, isn't as much about completing it, but how you are challenged by it and your actions (successful or not) vs that challenge. Okay, I may be waxing philosophical to the point of incoherence, so I'll leave it at that. ;)
ReplyDeleteHey, Carl Gerriets. Cool idea. A vow is anything with a potential objective and end-point, and as you note some promises don't necessarily work that way. There's a fair bit of overlap, though. Some quests are less "go here and do that thing" and more change a situation or "support a person". Relationships can be tied pretty heavily into those sort of vows.
ReplyDeleteI've also more or less boiled establishing and keeping relationships into bonds. There's less of a gameplay loop around bonds than with vows. They mostly serve a narrative function, with a bit of mechanical incentive. The Write your Epilogue move is also the ultimate outcome of the bonds you have made or broken.
I'll give it some thought, though, and it may be just a matter of framing some of the flexibility around vows in the rules.