I have a question regarding the “Forge a Bond” move.
I have a question regarding the “Forge a Bond” move. Why is this move made with +heart? It seems to me like the difficulty of the fulfilled vow would be more important. As written, a character with 3 heart who fulfills a troublesome vow would have a greater chance of Forging a Bond than a character with 1 heart who fulfills an extreme vow.
Interesting question, Peter J. +Heart is the obvious stat to use for this move, but the bigger question is whether the move should use the rank of the vow in some fashion instead of (or in addition to) heart. It certainly makes sense that the target of the bond should be influenced by the effort and sacrifices you made in fulfilling your vow.
ReplyDeleteThere's a couple of things to consider.
First of all, I want to encourage players to pick up new vows as they are pursuing a greater goal, and I don't want to shift the balance of the potential reward too far in the favor of tough quests. Not a big deal as long as we keep the bond rolls for low-ranked quests viable.
Secondly, there's the mechanics of it. The change to the roll might be pretty easy. How about +1 for each rank beyond troublesome? We can even perhaps keep +heart folded into the roll, which keeps the stat relevant. You roll +heart, and treat the rank as an add. Or, we decide you roll +whichever is higher (heart or rank). Either approach could work -- I'd just have to play with the math. Maybe a bit inelegant since it's a unique use of the ranks among all the moves, and it might affect or devalue some assets which impact the Forge a Bond move.
Lastly, a consideration ... there's an interesting fictional component to keeping it all on a level playing field. You suffer for months to fulfill an extreme vow for some community on the ass-end of nowhere. Then, you return expecting to be treated as a conquering hero and it's not what you expected? That's frustrating but there's maybe some interesting story potential there. The inverse is true as well. Help some guy out on a troublesome vow for a few hours and he's a friend for life. What does that say about his life?
Like, I said, really interesting question and it's not something I've duly considered. I'd lean towards letting simplicity win out, but would like to hear more of your thoughts and what others think.
Sorry for the long-windedness.
Sounds like something that needs play. Does +heart work out, or does some relation to the vow really make a difference
ReplyDeleteFrom a purely gameplay point of view, fulfilling a vow and not getting the bond does feel like a bit of a ripoff. I could see players becoming vindictive that the people they just helped aren't showing them any gratitude, especially for higher ranked vows. I really do think the difficulty of the vow should count.
ReplyDeleteAs for what kind of bonus you want to add, that depends on how you envision the odds of success. An action score of 4 has a 51% chance of any hit, an action score of 6 has a 75% chance of any hit, and an action score of 8 has a 91% chance of any hit. Let’s take a character that’s not particularly charismatic: a Heart stat of 1. What do you think the chances should be that they would gain a bond from a troublesome vow? A formidable vow? An epic vow?
Also, what would you say to being able to gain multiple bonds from one vow? Say, on a strong hit, you can try to forge another bond with someone else if such a person or group is available, but at a cumulative penalty each time you go for it? I feel that this would incentivize more difficult vows some more.
I'm not as deep into this as others, but my only thought is to ensure that +heart has some niche power in the game and that the stats all have potency in their spheres.
ReplyDeleteheart does get a ton of play in the system, which makes me happy. I
ReplyDeleteHeart and wits are both really important for different reasons. Iron and edge are sort of sister/brother, and emphasize different approaches (aggressive/strong versus fast/precise) -- players might emphasize one over the other.
Shadow is a slightly odd-duck in the mix, but it's a thematic choice which enables a certain type of character and approach. It gets some good play in rituals, of course.
Tangent. Sorry.
Thanks for the input, Peter J! I am thinking it over. Forge a Bond was originally not even tied to vows directly. It was a means of cementing an existing relationship, whether that relationship was born out of a vow or some other narrative circumstance. In the end, I liked the synergy with vows, but that does introduce some wonkiness.x