I'm up to pg 30 so far on my read through of the rules (though I skip around a lot to reference other rules as...
I'm up to pg 30 so far on my read through of the rules (though I skip around a lot to reference other rules as they're mentioned). More observations and questions follow:
Thoughts
I like that this game seems like it would be great for beginners, both in its clarity, & that it does things like explain d100 notation, BUT it doesn't assume the faux cutesie "What is a RPG? It's like playing Cops & Robbers! You and your friends use your imagination!" tone.
I'm seeing good solid advice on how to use oracles & random generators, something that even experienced gamers may be new to, especially if this is their first foray in solo RPG'ing.
I like the dice system. Nice alternative to PbtA & great way to integrate oracle, random events, & task resolution together.
Flowchart on pg.26 = Nice.
Default Setting: I like that its detailed enough to give the game a feel & set a mood, but open enough that you can fill in the blanks yourself. I get stuck in a weird middle ground these days where if a game has too much default setting I shut down, but if it has none I don't engage. This one is not triggering that feeling, meaning I think it's hit a nice sweet spot.
Assets: I really like these. Flavorful and evocative. Different from standard vanilla fantasy.
Notes I made to myself while reading:
"Ber-serks. Fire breathing dragons. Wights. Cannibals." (all things I could see using/adding).
"Ironsworn vow = Grail quest." (I can see it evoking that same kind of feeling as Arthur's knights in the wastelands).
Questions
Pg 66. Sojourn: On a strong or weak hit, choose 2 or 1. +1 for a Bond. Focus on one & roll+Heart again: strong to weak hit +2 to 1 more. The thing I'm not clear on is which you're choosing FROM - is it Clear a Condition, Recover, Provide Aid (meaning I can perform all the actions listed underneath) OR is it the ONES UNDERNEATH that we're choosing from? (Mend, Equip, Hearten and so on). That is to say; If it's the FORMER, & I choose Clear a Condition that I can do all 3 (Mend, Equip, Hearten). If it's the LATTER and, for example, I score a choose 2, that I could let's say Mend and Equip or Mend and Hearten and so on.
(Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'm really not clear on it).
Pg.24: Examples of equipment - would a dagger do 1 harm or 2? I'm torn, as it can be a DEADLY weapon, but it's also not as deadly as Sword or Spear, but more so that the Simple weapons mentioned (which were all blunt I noticed). Maybe add a dagger in there & avoid confusion. ;)
Pg.23: Mention of Rory's Story Cubes. Maybe a brief description of what they are, or a mention of The Creativity Hub? Just thinking, there may be folks who haven't heard of them/don't know what they are.
Observations:
Pg. 16: "...find guidelines for ranks in the Foes and Encounters chapter (page 128"). The chapter actually starts on 127. I thought I was in the wrong spot for a second. :)
I wonder if there could/should be some kind of move for Relationships similar to Undertake a Journey/Reach a Destination, with Stress involved for failure? Just a thought that occurred to me for relationships that would require more long term type progress. Or is such a thing even wanted/needed? Or covered by some other type of move(s)?
Sorry for such a long post. Hope there's something useful in it. :)
Thoughts
I like that this game seems like it would be great for beginners, both in its clarity, & that it does things like explain d100 notation, BUT it doesn't assume the faux cutesie "What is a RPG? It's like playing Cops & Robbers! You and your friends use your imagination!" tone.
I'm seeing good solid advice on how to use oracles & random generators, something that even experienced gamers may be new to, especially if this is their first foray in solo RPG'ing.
I like the dice system. Nice alternative to PbtA & great way to integrate oracle, random events, & task resolution together.
Flowchart on pg.26 = Nice.
Default Setting: I like that its detailed enough to give the game a feel & set a mood, but open enough that you can fill in the blanks yourself. I get stuck in a weird middle ground these days where if a game has too much default setting I shut down, but if it has none I don't engage. This one is not triggering that feeling, meaning I think it's hit a nice sweet spot.
Assets: I really like these. Flavorful and evocative. Different from standard vanilla fantasy.
Notes I made to myself while reading:
"Ber-serks. Fire breathing dragons. Wights. Cannibals." (all things I could see using/adding).
"Ironsworn vow = Grail quest." (I can see it evoking that same kind of feeling as Arthur's knights in the wastelands).
Questions
Pg 66. Sojourn: On a strong or weak hit, choose 2 or 1. +1 for a Bond. Focus on one & roll+Heart again: strong to weak hit +2 to 1 more. The thing I'm not clear on is which you're choosing FROM - is it Clear a Condition, Recover, Provide Aid (meaning I can perform all the actions listed underneath) OR is it the ONES UNDERNEATH that we're choosing from? (Mend, Equip, Hearten and so on). That is to say; If it's the FORMER, & I choose Clear a Condition that I can do all 3 (Mend, Equip, Hearten). If it's the LATTER and, for example, I score a choose 2, that I could let's say Mend and Equip or Mend and Hearten and so on.
(Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I'm really not clear on it).
Pg.24: Examples of equipment - would a dagger do 1 harm or 2? I'm torn, as it can be a DEADLY weapon, but it's also not as deadly as Sword or Spear, but more so that the Simple weapons mentioned (which were all blunt I noticed). Maybe add a dagger in there & avoid confusion. ;)
Pg.23: Mention of Rory's Story Cubes. Maybe a brief description of what they are, or a mention of The Creativity Hub? Just thinking, there may be folks who haven't heard of them/don't know what they are.
Observations:
Pg. 16: "...find guidelines for ranks in the Foes and Encounters chapter (page 128"). The chapter actually starts on 127. I thought I was in the wrong spot for a second. :)
I wonder if there could/should be some kind of move for Relationships similar to Undertake a Journey/Reach a Destination, with Stress involved for failure? Just a thought that occurred to me for relationships that would require more long term type progress. Or is such a thing even wanted/needed? Or covered by some other type of move(s)?
Sorry for such a long post. Hope there's something useful in it. :)
Not the author, but my take on it;
ReplyDeleteWeapons: I like that it's not all inclusive. Daggers? I like that I can decide how deadly a dagger is based on my character.
Rory's Story Cubes: I think he mentioned expanding on that actually.
Links: there were some additions to some text so links and references are off. It's still really a draft of work in progress.
Oh, I really like an idea of a "Relationship Quest"! Hmmm...
I am completely new to Solo and PbtA so take my comments for what they are.
Hi, MoonSylver. Thanks so much for the feedback! It's really helpful to me. Let me respond in earnest to your questions when I can focus on it, but just saying thanks for now and flagging for follow-up (busy Friday).
ReplyDeleteOh, and blunt weapons kind of fall in line with the default setting, if you haven't reached that part yet. Blades, because of steel/iron, is rather rare I take it.
ReplyDelete+1 on Relationship Quest
ReplyDeleteJohn Risus I get that the weapons list isn't meant to be all inclusive, & that the system gives you the flexibility to decide things like that for yourself. But as I say, I can't decide, & can see arguments both ways. Plus I figured a dagger/knife might be the most questioned/questionable (that was missing at any rate).
ReplyDeleteI hadn't gotten that far, but had already gleaned that iron was kinda scarce/a big deal, which bears the question: how common are knives/daggers? Seems like it would be the most common weapon that the average villager & such would have access to (other than staves & bows), just because of its everyday tool usage value. So I guess the question is; do they have them? Not that common? Not at all? (maybe there is a cultural taboo against blades in general? Perhaps an Ironsworn only type thing?)
I'm comfortable answering those questions if need be (& maybe I answered my own question!), but thought it was worth asking nonetheless. ;)
This raises another question: If Iron is scarce &/or sacred, & thus not in common use (if at all), how about other metals? Copper, bronze? Would/could they have blades of those? (Again unless cultural/religious custom forbids.) This makes me wonder about "precious" metals for that matter (silver/gold). And/or gemstones...
I figured the cross references might be off. I know it's a WIP (still see the XX for some page numbers that haven been written yet). That's why I was trying to catch things like that. ;)
Really enjoying the read so far, & talking about it with others! Obviously, it's got me thinking/got the wheels turning, which is good! :)
MoonSylver, I'm thinking I like the way your mind works. I see you were getting at how Shawn Tomkin intends, but it is an interesting discussion. I have been ruminating on how I would prefer to visualize the setting and what's better than answering your question/s? Me? I see it as a steel/iron poor setting. Bone & stone (oh, cool title), but I digress (a tad ADD today). Take daggers, I would see them as they have them, but only those that would really benefit from them. The butcher for example may be the only one in a small village that has a large cutting knife. But I do LOVE the idea of, though iron is used to swear a vow, it is also taboo! Maybe because of the monoliths... Definitely worth asking cause it has my brain spinning plot drivers!
ReplyDeleteHmm, copper, bronze... trinkets and jewelry only if I had to envision this world. Why? I don't know. Maybe its the idea seed you planted in my head of metal being taboo? Maybe it ties into, again, the columns? I am really hung up on the Horizon Zero Dawn setting at the moment and wanting to weave that history into my thoughts now all the time. Basically the idea that societies and cultures have... reset. Those that have metal have found/scrounged it, paid a very large cost for it, or it is an heirloom. Those that don't; fear it, worship it, horde it... The clans in HZD kinda fit this mold with the 'monsters'.
Oh man! My character's Epic vow will be to discover the "Riddle of Steel"... too Conan-ey? If they have Iron, do they have steel? A mighty quest indeed!
Yeah, this is a great group when it comes to discussion and brainstorming. Looks around I rather likes it hear....
John RisusRobert Slaughter, thanks for the vote of confidence on the Relationship idea. It occurred to me when reading about the Compel move & thinking there should be something to track the progress of a long-term commitment of some sort.
ReplyDeleteI may have been a bit premature though. I forgot about Bonds, or more specifically, I had forgotten/missed/wasn't aware yet that there is a progress track on them. Between Forge a Bond, Test Your Bond, & Write Your Epilogue I think this covers the territory I imagined. Shawn Tomkin can confirm, but I'm thinking there's no need? :)
Hi, MoonSylver .. real quick (I'll go back and respond to the rest of your post when my head is above water) ... yes, as you noted, there's a gameplay loop with relationships as an outcome of swearing vows. Swear a vow, do it, Forge a Bond, mark a tic on the bond progress track (plus potential bonuses in various moves when you leverage that bond). When it's all said and done, you retire from your ironsworn life and you Write your Epilogue by rolling against the bonds you have formed.
ReplyDeleteI do think the idea of a more granular relationship progress track as a peer to fights/journeys/quests is really interesting. But, it also creates an implication of being more settled, working to improve a specific relationship. The game, meanwhile is trying to drive you to head out, find new troubles, and establish new bonds. You're Mad Max or the Man with No Name, riding into town, setting things right, and then heading into the sunset as you get back to the personal quests that haunt you. Will you ever be back to that place? Maybe. Maybe not. Mark a tick. Make a note of it. Move along.
Anyway .. current thinking on the matter but -- after your post--it was bouncing around my head that I should totally see how a more granular relationship track might play out.
Shawn Tomkin Thanks for the replies Shawn! Take your time. I'm on vacation until Monday, so I've had time. ;)
ReplyDeleteBTW, feel free to disregard any & all feedback from yours truly. Won't hurt my feelings any. I know it's rambling & stream-of-consciousness, but that's me, taking notes as I read & think.
Given your post, I've re-reconsidered. Maybe a different track for relationships is needed or desirable. I guess I hadn't (re)considered the fact that you'd always be on the move/maybe never see some of these people again.
Speaking of which, I have more thoughts/questions on Bonds & Progress now , especially how it pertains to this conversation, as I'm reading/re-reading certain parts, but I'll save them for tomorrows notes. ;)
Getting ready to start reading again, up to pg 84, but I just wanted to add here, since it is relative to this discussion, that I noticed on pg 44 that there is mention of a dagger as part of a "typical Ironlander" (although after some of the ideas that arose from this discussion, I'm okay with them NOT being "typical"!).
ReplyDeleteThere are also a few other mentions of them later (all in the hands of Ironsworn I notice). So with that said, just reiterating that it might not be a bad idea to establish harm on them. :) (FWIW I'm leaning toward 1, but I figured if I asked the question others might as well) ;)
Hi, MoonSylver. Busy morning doing some updates to the rulebook and moves (which I will talk about in a sec). Let's get to some of your questions:
ReplyDelete1) Sojourn: Great point, actually, and one I never considered. How about this as a minor tweak: "you and your allies may each choose two from within the categories below." (they key part being "from within the categories". Does that reinforce the intent for you?
2) Daggers. So, as you can tell, I'm being a bit loosey-goosey when it comes to the level of weaponcraft in play in the default setting. Here's how I picture it in my version of the Ironlands ... spears and shields are the most common type of weapon. Both easily fashioned, and requiring not much in the way of fine metal craft. Axes mostly serve as tools, but are favored as weapons for some. Knives would be really common as a tool, but not really all that great for fighting. Daggers/swords are relatively rare (especially the latter).
Would I call a dagger deadly and give it two harm, when wielded by a character. Yeah, I probably would. It's a fighting blade for the purpose of killing folks. A knife, however, I might just give 1 harm unless my character is carrying knives of fighting quality and perhaps has the cutthroat asset.
All that said, I know there's a lot of potential discussion around what is a dagger versus a knife, etc. and I'm mostly just leaving it to the players. I'm drawing a bit of distinction at things like staffs or clubs or improvised weapons versus bladed weapons, but that's partly to give players who don't want to go around slicing and dicing and option to be less brutal and then deal with the challenges of making that work. In reality, an iron-shod staff can be a pretty deadly weapon, I imagine.
That's sort of a long, non-answer, but hopefully gets across my default intent and the flexibility you have to make your own decisions. Is a particular weapon deadly in a particular character's hands? Feel free to call it deadly.
The distinction, of course, is not important for NPC's. They'll do their rank in damage, irrespective of how you narrate their equipment. If they are particularly well equipped, up their rank by one.
3) Rory's Story Cubes. Good point. I'm considering adding an appendix of other oracles, but that may just end up being a feature on the website. I've got to consider whether the Rory's mention is adding a whole bunch of value at this stage. It was mostly included as a stop-gap prior to the Oracles chapter being released.
4) Relationship tracks. I'm leaning away from making this a different subsystem than it is currently, but still noodling on it. I have actually updated the Forge a Bond move in the latest draft to be a bit looser, and to support forming narrative bonds versus just as the result of a quest (though a quest makes it much more likely to Forge the Bond). I think this generally gives the player a bit more flexibility to let bonds emerge naturally from the fiction.
Lastly, grab the updated PDF via the site as you continue your reading. There's been a few changes (mostly in the moves chapter).
Really appreciate you giving things a look and I am thrilled it's caught your eye. Thanks so much for the feedback!
Shawn Tomkin Thanks for the reply!
ReplyDelete1) That makes it clearer. A cleaner wording option might be some thing like "choose an option from the three categories below" or "Choose two options from the three categories above" etc, or something like that. That way it specifies there are three categories, each having multiple options that are being chosen from?
2) I see. You're right: not much sense worrying about it when NPC's do damage by Rank. And it'd be easy enough to surmise for a PC a Dagger (fighting weapon) could be 2 , whereas a table/butcher knife (improvised weapon) might only be 1.
3) Gotcha.
4) In my reading last night I think I became clear on something I'd misunderstood: If I have it right now, every time you Forge a Bond, regardless of who with, they all get marked on the same Bond track, yes? That is to say, your Bond track is a sum total of all the Bonds you form in general, right?
I had somehow formed my own impression that each Bond you Forged had it's own progress track. Which is how I guess I was picturing some kind of Relationship Progress Track working. Tracking your progress in some kind of personal friendship, relationship, gaining trust, whatever.
Blame it on my tendency to start A) envisioning scenarios ahead of time & seeing how I can play them out in the rules & B) Start looking to push & prod rules to do the things I want to do, or seeing how I can make them do things they don't explicitly say they can do.
On the subject of Progress Tracks in general, I started thinking on all the different ways this mechanic can be implemented on things take time to accomplish: anything from building a boat, to seeking a young ladies hand in marriage, to founding a village!
BUT, I also got to thinking, all of these things could/would/should be covered under Vows, & their Fulfillment, could they not? Would not anything that you're going to commit that kind of time & attention to most likely lead to a vow? If not, then it probably SHOULD only be a tick mark on a track of Bonds.
You'll, again, have to forgive: I'm a very old school gamer: all of the new school, PbtA-style games are still very new to me. It gets hard for me to wrap my head around narrative mechanics instead of things like stats & skills. ;)
Again, hope there is some value in the feedback, & please feel free to disregard all that isn't useful. :)
MoonSylver .. exactly right on the bonds. It's sort of a mega-track to account for the bonds you've formed. Each one is a tick. A bond can be a person or a community.
ReplyDeleteAnd building boats, courting, and founding a village can totally all be vows! Let's take the most mundane example of the three, building a boat.
Let's say a settlement needs to build a boat big enough and sturdy enough to transport them somewhere. Perhaps they seek to relocate to one of the Barrier Islands. For whatever reason, you've sworn to help them.
Then, you consider what's going to be required to make that happen. You'll need a shipwright. Gotta find someone willing to do it, and perhaps get caught up in whatever he wants in return. You'll need materials. That might involve an expedition into a dangerous forest. You'll need to defend the village to ensure that whatever issue plagues them doesn't undermine the plan. When the boat is built, you'll help guide them on their way.
Those all become potential milestones in your quest. Sometimes, when I Swear and Iron Vow, I'll write out those as bullet points just to ground myself in the potential challenges and storylines I'll need to pursue. Then, often, things go haywire and you'll find yourself dealing with unforseen issues, or even get wrapped up in new vows.
You get those folks to their island, and Forge a Bond. Mark a tick (or maybe two, since it sounds like a relatively complex adventure that might give you a relationship with the community itself as well as with some prominent NPC).
The feedback is awesome and helpful. Thanks much.